Welcome to the Treehouse Community
Want to collaborate on code errors? Have bugs you need feedback on? Looking for an extra set of eyes on your latest project? Get support with fellow developers, designers, and programmers of all backgrounds and skill levels here with the Treehouse Community! While you're at it, check out some resources Treehouse students have shared here.
Looking to learn something new?
Treehouse offers a seven day free trial for new students. Get access to thousands of hours of content and join thousands of Treehouse students and alumni in the community today.
Start your free trial
Pete Nicholson
5,030 PointsCharging for consulting as a developer
I'm a new front end developer, and my first client is a new branding studio. They have five or so websites they want built, which have all been designed by one of the studio partners.
The partner a graphic designer, and the designs pay no real regard to responsive principles or good UX. There are lots of dated elements (intro animations, everything on separate pages) and plain confounding decisions (two massive navs for one site, one horizontal and one vertical, on a site that's supposed to be simple).
All of which is fine: that's what I'm here for –– to help refine their ideas into something we can build into a usable modern website.
My initial plan was to scope out the websites (listing templates and functionality etc), get a quote together and in that quote charge them for project management to cover some of my time.
I'm now a couple of months in, and have spent dozens of hours consulting with the client about how to improve the designs and development paths for the sites. Only one website has reached quote stage, and now that has been put on hold. I haven't been paid anything.
As the email back and forth is taking forever (and is particularly difficult given the client's first language not being English), I suggested a paid workshop where I could go over the designs in person, come up with agreed design patterns for the sites that I would then wireframe as the first (paid) step in building the website, but the client ignored the suggestion, preferring this endless round of emailing, which is free for them, but getting us nowhere.
I don't think the model of waiting to get paid via a quote for the website build is working here, as I'm being used as a consultant extensively before we get to the build page.
Is it acceptable to just tell the client I need to bill for the hours I'm spending consulting, or is it expected I'll just continue eating this unpaid time in the hope of getting the projects to signoff/quote stage?
tl;dr -- when is it acceptable for a developer to charge for consulting before a build begins?
4 Answers
Greg Kaleka
39,021 PointsDisclaimer: This is just my opinion. You don't have to listen to me :)
If it's truly been dozens of hours of consulting, then yes, it's absolutely time to put your foot down. A bit of back-and-forth is expected to get a sense for what the client wants, what you're capable of, etc., but at this point, I would suggest you simply tell the client you're unable to continue working on this project without being paid for your time.
Be respectful, but stand your ground. You've given enough free advice, and it's time to be paid for your work. If you lose the client because of this, you are frankly probably better off. If they aren't willing to pay you for your time, you don't want to be giving it to them!
Good luck!
Kevin Korte
28,149 PointsYes, absolutely it's okay to charge. I'm afraid I think you've ate the time you have invested thus far, it's not fair to try to now charge for previous time when it wasn't originally an agreement.
Going forward, you can charge at a different price than your design and/or development costs. You could charge $85 an hour to develop, and $50 an hour to consult, as an example.
You're going to have enough non-billable time in a project anyway, don't give away huge chunks.
I'm not good at this myself, but I'd basically have a conversation with the client that says this. "I haven't been fair to both of us, because I haven't communicated well. I'd love to continue helping you with this project, and I think I have a lot of advice and expertise that will please you in the end, but I have to start charging for my time, whether it be consulting or developing. I either have to charge, and be paid, or I have to go find a different job because I have responsibilities in my life that require money. We are starting from a zero balance today. Going forward my rates for this is $XXXX, and my rate for that is $XXXX. My billing structure will be [I will need to have the current balance paid at these milestones (list milestones) or I need to be paid every 15, 30, 60 days, etc]. If this is not acceptable to you, I regret I will not be able to continue. I'm available if you have any questions.
In short, be gentle but firm, assertive but reassuring, calm but confident. Don't blame the client at it, blame yourself, but set the tone going forward. You've let the client dominate the relationship (I do it too, don't worry).
Good luck!
jason chan
31,009 Pointswait you charge that much? man, I've been holding back on expertise then. LOLs.
Kevin Korte
28,149 PointsThe prices are just examples. Pricing yourself is a difficult thing. Many things go into account, such as how wealthy the market is you're working in, the type of clients you deal with, and most importantly your value and expertise.
If you have a lot of work, raise your prices. If you struggle to find work, lower you prices. The market will help you dial in where your pricing should be. You also have to factor in non-billable time you'll have, some freebies you'll more than likely throw in, taxes, ect to pay out of you wage.
I probably wouldn't work for much less than those examples, unless I wanted to for a organization I wanted to support, family/friend, etc. You also don't have to charge the same for each client. If you feel out a client at the beginning and they they are going to be crazy, but still interested in doing the work, you can charge them more per hour as a premium to put up with them.
Money is relative to the area you're working in.
Jason Anders
Treehouse Moderator 145,860 PointsIn the past with editing, if it was just a quick consult, I wouldn't charge. I plan to carry this philosophy over as I move into development... Quick consults and/or initial discussions to determine what the project will entail I probably won't charge. However, once the topic changes from "what do you need" to "okay, I think you should do..." is when I'll change from free to billable.
This is only my personal opinion, but to me it sounds as though you have spend way more 'free' time with them then you should, and really need to start billing for your time. You have to think of it this way: this free time you are giving them could be spend finding new and paying clients.
Good Luck! :)
Pete Nicholson
5,030 PointsTotally agreed. I was an editor and writer before this too, and would never have done so much without being paid. It's just because I'm starting out that I've been a bit timid.
Pete Nicholson
5,030 PointsThanks for the sound advice all!
I levelled with the client, who asked if my consulting fee would be included in the total build cost, for which they had a set budget. To get around the fact that the consulting process was to actually find out the total build cost, with another developer's help, I drew up a proposal with a process for meeting, consulting, wireframing, revisions, coding and delivery that would get the site done, and costed it at the client's set budget.
The client agreed to go ahead, so I'm now billing 50% of the budget to commence work. Now I can continue working and get paid.
Pete Nicholson
5,030 PointsPete Nicholson
5,030 PointsGreat advice, thanks Greg!