Inclusive Design with Regine Gilbert

[MUSIC] 0:00 Hello, Regine. 0:04 >> Hi. 0:06 >> Hi. 0:07 >> Hi. >> Hi, everyone. 0:08 Thanks so much for joining us in this session. 0:10 And today we have Regine Gilbert who is a user experience designer, 0:11 educator, international public speaker with over ten years of 0:16 experience working in the technology arena. 0:20 She has a strong belief in making the world a more accessible place, 0:24 one that starts and ends with the user. 0:28 Thanks Regine. 0:32 In 2019, Regine's first book, first book you all, 0:33 Inclusive Design for a Digital World, Designing with Accessibility 0:37 in Mind design thinking was released through a press publish. 0:42 I hope you all go and check that out. 0:46 I'm certainly am. 0:47 We're so happy to have you Regine. 0:47 Thanks for joining us today. 0:49 >> Thank you for having me here. 0:51 I realized like, I was like, I forgot about the background. 0:52 [LAUGH] Thank you for 0:55 having me here. 0:59 Today I'm going to be talking about inclusive design for a digital world. 1:04 And let me just go to share my screen with you all. 1:10 As you said, I am the author of Inclusive Design for a Digital World, 1:15 Designing with Accessibility in Mind. 1:19 And I'm also a professor at NYU and I teach user experience design courses, 1:22 as well as assistive technology courses. 1:27 And so today, I want to talk about accessibility and inclusion. 1:31 Accessible design focuses on the outcome or end result of a design project. 1:36 And inclusive design is closely related to accessibility. 1:42 But rather than outcome, its methodology for, how to approach design? 1:46 And it's a process for 1:52 creating a design that can be used by a diverse group of people. 1:53 So what I like to ask people is, who might you be excluding from the start? 2:01 One of the questions I like to ask folks is, 2:06 have you ever gone somewhere and couldn't get in? 2:09 Or have you ever wanted to do something and weren't able to do it? 2:12 And how did that make you feel? 2:17 Typically people think about it and say, well, 2:22 I didn't feel very good when I couldn't do that thing I really wanted to do. 2:25 And so that's what we don't want to do when we're working on creating products. 2:29 So Kat Holmes wrote a book called Mismatch design, which is a book I highly recommend 2:37 for every designer, developer, creative out there. 2:41 And she says, we don't really know what inclusion is, 2:45 but we know what exclusion is. 2:50 And she says that exclusion is a habit. 2:52 And exclusion habit is the belief that whoever starts the game also sets 2:56 the rules of the game. 3:01 We think we don't have power to change a game, so we abdicate our accountability. 3:03 We keep repeating the same behaviors over and over. 3:07 What this means is that, we have an opportunity to create new habits, we 3:11 have the opportunity to create things that are more inclusive and more accessible. 3:17 So, I like to show some statistics because I always think it helps 3:25 people put things in perspective and in a frame of reference. 3:30 So one in four people in the United States has a disability 3:35 that could range from many things. 3:40 And I think with this pandemic, we've seen an increase with 3:43 people having depression and all kinds of things. 3:48 So this number might be a little bit higher. 3:52 And in the year 2035, there will be more people over the age of 65 3:58 than under the age of 65 in the United States. 4:02 This will be the first time this happens and this is from the 2018 US Census. 4:06 So what to keep in mind when it comes to accessibility. 4:16 You want to think about visual, this is blindness, low vision, color blindness. 4:19 Hearing, this deafness and hard of hearing. 4:25 Motor, inability to use a mouse, slow response time, limited motor control. 4:28 And cognitive, learning disabilities, distractibility, 4:36 inability to focus on large amounts of information. 4:40 So there are web standards out there. 4:47 I've been teaching user experience design for 4:48 the last five years. 4:54 And when I first got into UX design, 4:57 I really didn't know about the web standards, I was never taught about them. 5:00 And I found over the years that a lot of students that I've taught, 5:06 didn't know anything about them either. 5:10 So the web content accessibility standards or guidelines, 5:14 that the WCAG Are part of guidelines published by 5:19 the Web Accessibility Initiative and World Wide Web Consortium, the W3C. 5:23 These are the main international standards for the Internet. 5:30 And in the United States, there's Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Action, 5:35 which is a law that requires federal agencies and 5:40 contractors to adhere to the minimum level of accessibility. 5:43 So that means any sort of government website, whether it's state or 5:48 federal needs to have an accessible website, it is required by law. 5:53 Within the Web Content Accessibility guidelines, 6:01 there are four criteria, there are four areas. 6:05 There's perceivable, operable, understandable, and robust. 6:10 So when you think of something being perceivable, 6:15 you have to think of offering options. 6:18 So, at the end of the day, accessibility is just offering options. 6:21 It shouldn't be extra work, it should be you as the creator, 6:25 the designer, the developer making sure that as many people can use it as 6:29 possible by providing options for them. 6:34 So, you want to provide vision and hearing. 6:38 So for example, if you're working on a website, you want to make sure 6:41 that that website is something that if I'm only using keyboard, I can do that, right? 6:46 Operable, so can I operate this thing? 6:54 You wanna make things understandable, and robust. 6:58 So this came out earlier this year, it's called the WebAIM Million. 7:07 WebAIM is one of my favorite resources for accessibility, 7:14 because they just have so much stuff there. 7:20 I mean, when I first got into learning about accessibility, I went to WebAIM. 7:24 I actually got to go out to Utah and do a training with them, 7:30 which was really wonderful, a two-day training because at the time, 7:34 they were the only place to get training for accessibility. 7:39 So in February of 2019 and February of 2020, 7:43 WebAIM conducted an accessibility evaluation of home pages for 7:47 the top 1 million websites, and over 100,000 additional interior site pages. 7:52 So what they found and what I have here on the screen is a graph showing 8:05 the most common Web Content Accessibility guideline failures, 8:11 and this is a percentage number of home pages. 8:16 The number one issue was low contrast, 8:20 followed by missing alternative text, empty links, 8:24 missing form labels, empty buttons, missing document language. 8:29 Now, low contrast is one of these things that designers are responsible for. 8:36 But accessibility goes beyond low contrast. 8:44 It really requires you to pay attention to 8:48 how you're laying out the page is the hierarchy of the page, 8:51 going to make sense for someone who is a keyboard only user. 8:56 There's lots of considerations. 9:01 So I like to show this example. 9:05 What I have on the screen are four boxes. 9:09 With each box, there's a text, this hard to read, 9:11 this is easy to read, also hard to read, also easy to read. 9:15 The top box is in blue and red. 9:19 This is hard to read because it is low contrast. 9:23 In the next box, I have a green with a little bit of 9:26 a lighter green text and it says, this is easy to read. 9:31 And the box here below the box that I mentioned before, 9:36 it says, also hard to read. 9:41 There is a green with a yellow text, that is hard to read. 9:43 And then there is a box with a yellow background and 9:49 black text and this says, also easy to read. 9:53 So, With when it comes to contrast, 9:57 it is one of the easiest things we can fix out there on the web. 10:01 So here I'm gonna describe this illustration. 10:08 At the top here it says inclusion and equality. 10:12 So I have, it's three different images. 10:15 The first image it's a baseball game in the background and 10:20 there is a fence and there are three people. 10:25 There is a tall person, a middle person, and a shorter person. 10:30 And so each person is standing on a box. 10:36 The tall person can see the game, 10:40 the middle person can see the game over the fence, 10:43 and the shorter person can see through the fence. 10:47 And they're all standing on boxes and at the bottom it says equality. 10:51 The next image is of the same three people looking at the game, but 10:56 they're seeing it in different ways. 11:00 The tall person is able to see over the fence, 11:03 the middle person is standing on a box and able to see over the fence, 11:06 and the shorter person is standing on two boxes and is able to see over the fence. 11:11 This is equity. 11:18 The last image says, the fence is removed completely. 11:21 And this is liberation. 11:27 And in essence, when we make things inclusive and 11:30 equal, we take away the barriers, right? 11:35 So the barrier in this image is the fence. 11:39 And when we think about the things that we're creating, 11:44 what barriers might we be putting in the way of our potential users? 11:47 So I think it comes down to strategy. 11:56 There's a wonderful podcast called Revision Path that I listened to. 12:00 Revision Path showcases black designers, developers, and 12:04 creatives from all over the world. 12:07 And one a week ago or so, I was listening and 12:10 one of the designers was talking about strategy and design strategy. 12:13 And so I wanted to put this slide in because I think we don't 12:17 think about strategy as much as we probably should. 12:22 I think that we wanna get in and we wanna design. 12:26 We have deadlines, but we need to think about, 12:30 how are we making this is as inclusive as possible? 12:33 How are we making this as accessible as possible before we even start to design? 12:37 It really is important that we take those steps because what ends 12:42 up happening if we don't, is we end up doing a lot of rework. 12:47 I think it's Einstein who has the quote that says, if I had a problem, 12:52 I would spend 55 minutes researching it. 12:56 Or if I had an hour to solve a problem, I would spend 55 minutes researching it, and 12:59 then five minutes solving it, right? 13:03 You really wanna take that time upfront to solve the problem. 13:06 So there are some inclusive design tools out there that are pretty great. 13:13 There's the wave tool, which is through WebAIM. 13:18 There's NoCoffee, aXe. 13:22 There's Color Contrast Analyzer and Chrome Accessibility Developer Tools. 13:25 Now a lot of these, you can actually, 13:30 if you're using Chrome as your browser, 13:34 you can have those plugins or Chrome extensions for these things. 13:38 And just some inclusive design tips. 13:45 You wanna, first and foremost, get to know who you're designing for and 13:47 realize that your designers can be a really diverse group of people. 13:52 You are not your user. 13:56 My friend and mentor, Erin Nealy says its not IX ,it's not me X, 13:59 it's UX and I think we all need to remember that. 14:06 You wanna make inclusive design a part of every stage of your 14:10 product in development. 14:15 This is so important. 14:17 The other day, I was filling out a form on a website, and 14:19 it made me select male or female and it had no other options. 14:25 And frankly, to make things inclusive, you need to not just have male and female. 14:31 There are people who don't identify with either of those genders. 14:37 So you wanna make sure that when it comes to forms and other things that people 14:40 have to fill out, that you don't only allow for mister or misses, and etc. 14:45 So make inclusive design a part of every stage of your product development. 14:50 One way to approach designing for inclusiveness and 14:56 accessibility is designing for uncommon uses first. 15:00 And you wanna design with clear affordances. 15:04 Meaning that you wanna make sure that you're allowing your users to know where 15:07 and when they can select things and where that's gonna lead them. 15:12 And please, please, please, this is as designers, 15:16 whoever is here as a designer, assure color contrast is clear enough for 15:20 those with vision issues including color blindness and low vision. 15:25 I am one of the people who am impacted. 15:30 With color a bit, I've discovered over the years there are certain things that I have 15:34 a really hard time seeing. 15:38 So my question for you all is, how might 15:43 we use our skills to make a more equitable future? 15:48 This is something that, this is a question actually Maurice Cherry from Revision Path 15:55 asked this question and I actually changed this question because before 16:01 I used to ask, how might we make more accessible inclusive experiences? 16:06 But truly if we're wanting to make things inclusive and 16:11 if we're wanting to make things accessible, 16:15 that means that we are wanting to make things equitable. 16:19 And we are not wanting to leave folks out. 16:24 Yeah, I feel very strongly that we have an opportunity as creatives to 16:32 make a better future for ourselves by thinking about accessibility. 16:38 And one of the things that I like to do is, I have done 16:44 this workshop a few times where I have people think about designing for 16:49 their future selves and their their self at age 73. 16:56 And what does that mean? 17:02 So if you're wearing glasses, if you are having issues with your knees. 17:03 We as a society have been sitting and working from home. 17:09 I don't know about any of you, but how is everyone's back doing, right? 17:15 So what does this mean for us? 17:20 What does the future look like for us? 17:22 And so I firmly believe that if we start now by making things accessible, 17:25 it's not something we're gonna have to worry about when we get older. 17:31 But it does take first and foremost, 17:37 the awareness and knowing that currently 17:41 things are very inaccessible for many people. 17:46 What can you do as an individual? 17:51 Maybe you're new to design, and 17:54 you're like, well, how can I even start? 17:58 Everybody has to start somewhere. 18:03 I ended up writing a book on accessibility, but 18:05 I only wrote this book because I have a lot of questions. 18:09 And I got asked a lot of questions. 18:13 And I think that being aware is one step, asking questions, 18:15 and then finding the answers to those questions is very important for all of us. 18:21 And then I feel strongly that we have an opportunity to recreate things, right? 18:28 The beauty of design is to be able to dismantle things and 18:37 then build new things. 18:41 And so I think we truly have the opportunity here to do these things. 18:43 It's gonna take time. 18:49 When I first started in UX, not many people were talking about except. 18:52 There was a really small group and I have loved seeing that more and 18:58 more people have gotten into it. 19:02 I mean, all of you are here right now and that's fantastic. 19:04 So just keep learning. 19:09 Learn and share what you know because that's 19:12 what I've been doing and it's a pleasure to get 19:17 to teach my students about accessibility. 19:22 I'll give you an example of something that I did this past summer. 19:27 I get to co teach a class called Looking Forward. 19:34 And Looking Forward is a course for students to learn about 19:39 assistive technologies for people who are blind and have low vision. 19:44 I co teach with Gus Chalkatis, who is blind. 19:50 And Gus and I were talking and I have great interest in UX and 19:55 augmented reality and virtual reality and 19:59 We started talking about Pokemon Go and he's like, I wish I could play Pokemon Go. 20:04 And I started to think, why can't he play Pokemon Go? 20:13 He's fine, but he'd like to play. 20:16 Why can't he? 20:19 And this kind of turned into a project for 20:20 my students to create an accessible augmented reality experience. 20:24 Now, when we think about augmented reality, 20:31 we tend to think about, yeah, things like Pokemon Go, or 20:35 you're putting a filter on your face on Snapchat or on Instagram. 20:40 So how could you possibly create an accessible augmented reality experience? 20:47 Well, you can use sound, you can use haptic feedback. 20:53 Again, accessibility comes down to options, right, and 20:57 providing those options. 21:01 So UX designers and designers in general are problem solvers, 21:04 and there's a lot to be done out there in the world. 21:09 So again, I'll ask this question, 21:15 how might we use our skills to make a more equitable future? 21:17 So I think that is all I had. 21:24 Let me see here. 21:28 Yes, that is it. 21:33 So I did want to leave some time open for questions that folks may have. 21:37 So okay, resources on accessibility. 21:45 So there's lots. 21:49 I think I had mentioned webaim.org, and 21:50 I can type it in the chat, is one that I really like a lot. 21:55 If you're looking to take courses, 22:04 I think deque, it's D-E-Q-U-E, is also great. 22:09 They have a deque university 22:17 It's a really wonderful place to learn. 22:24 One of the things that I decided to do was become 22:29 a certified accessibility professional and 22:34 there is an organization called the IAAP. 22:38 It's the International Association of Accessibility Professionals. 22:43 If you look up IAAP, there's also an International Association 22:49 of Administrative Professionals. 22:55 That's not the one you want, but there is a group specifically for 22:57 accessibility, international association. 23:04 Thank you. 23:14 [LAUGH] Yeah, so I took a course through deque 23:16 university last year in order to prep for 23:21 the certification exam, and I'm a general 23:26 accessibility professional, a certified person. 23:31 There's also the opportunity if you are somebody who does like front end or 23:37 back end development, you can get another type of certification 23:43 that is specific to development of accessible technology. 23:48 Let's see here, 23:55 Crystal is asking, I've been talking about bringing accessible design into apps. 23:56 We may get the nonprofit I work for, but the progress has been negligible. 24:01 It's like people don't know where to start. 24:07 Any advice? 24:09 So yes, I think you have to, one, 24:10 why do you need to make things accessible, 24:14 right, is the question we often get in this industry. 24:20 And the reason is because one, it's the law [LAUGH], right, 24:27 for many industries, especially if you're receiving any sort of federal funding. 24:32 Secondly, if you want to get as many people looking at your site as possible, 24:40 then you need to make it accessible to everybody, right, 24:45 as many people as possible. 24:49 And I think the number one issue really 24:52 with accessibility is awareness. 24:57 One, a lot of people don't know that they need to do it. 25:03 I mean, a few months back, I spoke to a bunch of small business owners who didn't 25:06 really know that they needed to make their websites accessible. 25:10 So one, there's the awareness factor. 25:15 I think that there is a lot to be known about, like if you make your site 25:17 accessible, that means a lot more people can come to it, right? 25:22 And that's where I'd start. 25:27 I'd start with, we can get more people, we get more people. 25:30 I think [LAUGH] if we're looking at bottom line, you get more people. 25:34 Maybe you get more donations, maybe you get more money. 25:39 And we could set the standards for our industry by making this accessible, right? 25:44 And it's just the right thing to do beyond anything else. 25:52 So yeah, any other questions? 25:58 I hope that helps, Crystal. 26:01 Okay, so Jane is asking, where can we follow you? 26:03 So I'm pretty active on Twitter. 26:09 I tweet about accessibility a lot. 26:13 I also am into XR. 26:15 So extended realities, virtual reality, augmented reality, and accessibility. 26:17 I also am a huge Missy Elliott fan [LAUGH] for fun. 26:22 Missy Elliott followed me a few months back and I was just like, what? 26:27 So Twitter is probably the best. 26:33 And then LinkedIn is another good place to, 26:36 those are probably where I'm most active, Twitter and LinkedIn. 26:41 And Regine Gilbert, you could find me pretty easily. 26:48 Okay, so do you know any speech tools that can be incorporated 26:55 into sites such as text help, reach, and write? 27:00 So I'm not familiar with what you're saying there. 27:05 However, what you need to understand when someone is using assistive technology, 27:10 they're using a tool of their choice, right? 27:18 So for example, if I am on a Mac, I may choose to use voice over, 27:22 or if I'm using a PC, I may use right? 27:29 So if I'm using my own screen reader and maybe, 27:35 I hope I'm answering your question properly, but 27:39 if I'm using a screen reader, then it's my choice of assistive technology. 27:43 You don't get to choose that. 27:50 What you do get to choose if you're a designer or 27:52 developer is how the page is laid out, right? 27:55 So when my screen reader, regardless of what screen reader 27:59 is reading the page, I should be able to go through the page and 28:04 navigate the page no matter what assistive technology I'm using. 28:10 So what I would say use what is native to your device and 28:16 try those things out on your site. 28:22 Use the screen readers that are native to your particular, 28:26 if you have a PC or Mac, they both have built in speech to text. 28:31 So use that and see if you can navigate your site. 28:36 Also, I am a big, big fan of can you keyboard through the site. 28:41 So if you're working on a website, can I only use a keyboard? 28:48 So as a designer, as a developer, you should just try it, 28:53 try to see if you can navigate the sites you're working on with only a keyboard. 28:56 And if you're not able to do it, then you should revisit what you're working on and 29:02 see how you can make it accessible for keyboard users. 29:08 So somebody is sharing, yeah, so what does this learn with the top 29:13 master class on human centered design for public servants of any kind? 29:18 Yeah, yeah, I listened to a talk a few days ago. 29:23 Claudio is his first name, I can't remember, but it's a wonderful talk. 29:30 I'll see if I can retweet it or somehow get it all to you or send it to Liz. 29:34 But he brought up a good point because he was talking 29:40 about bias and our bias when it comes to design and 29:45 when it comes to accessible design, that the tendency is one, 29:50 the faults that we have is that we don't actually 29:57 design With people with disabilities, and he asked a question and 30:02 he's like, when was the last time you saw a beautiful walker? 30:07 And I paused when he asked that question because I thought to 30:14 myself when was the last time I saw something like a beautiful walker? 30:18 And I think there is another Liz Jackson out there who 30:22 is an accessibility advocate who talks about 30:28 the fact that people with disabilities are true 30:33 innovators when it comes to creating devices or other things. 30:38 And she really encourages folks with disabilities to be the designer, 30:45 not just the end tester, right? 30:54 To really get in there and 30:58 I think it is up to us who are already in the design industry or even getting into 31:00 the design industry to encourage more people with disabilities to get into it. 31:05 And then when we do decide to work on things, to work with people and 31:09 not design for them because when we designed for them, we end up creating what 31:14 Liz Jackson the accessibility advocate called a disability dongle. 31:20 So you know how if you have a Mac, 31:25 there are these dongles for everything. 31:29 And a lot of things end up getting created for people with disabilities that 31:34 are completely useless to them because they weren't included in the process. 31:40 They weren't asked, so we want to start to change the way we think about things. 31:47 Yes, thank you. 31:55 Yes, the girl with the purple cane. 31:56 Say yeah, any other questions people have? 32:00 Also I would say get my book if you don't have it. 32:03 I'm not a big person of plug in stuff, [LAUGH] but 32:07 I would say inclusive design for digital world. 32:10 If you're newer to accessibility, it's a really good book. 32:13 People ask me where to start and I say well, 32:17 this is where I recommend people because it's the process kind of that I took, 32:20 but also I got a lot of questions from students over the years. 32:25 Okay, can you share something that would be considered disability dongle? 32:32 I have no doubt they exist, but I'm curious what they would be. 32:37 I don't know if Liz has a list, but one of the things I know 32:41 was it was like this wheelchair that would go upstairs, 32:46 that it's like this isn't really the thing that people with disability need. 32:51 They actually need more ramps. 32:59 So instead of building more ramps, people make this device that goes upstairs. 33:01 So that's the kind of stuff that doesn't actually make sense, like ramps. 33:07 There's a really great illustration and 33:12 I can't remember the author but I will try to remember. 33:15 And so it's a scene where it was a snowy day and 33:21 there's a bunch of kids who are hanging out outside of the school and 33:26 the the janitor is about to clear the steps. 33:34 And there's a child who is in a wheelchair and 33:40 the child says to the janitor if you cleared the ramp, everybody could get up. 33:43 And the the janitor says, well, I got to clear these steps first. 33:50 And that's the truth, right? 33:56 So if the janitor actually cleared the ramp, all the kids could go, but 33:58 if you just cleared the steps, only certain people can go up the steps. 34:02 And so that's hopefully at least that helps you understand disability dongles, 34:07 or there's a lot of things that are created and 34:13 that's not really the problem, right? 34:17 So one of the things I think that we can do as as creatives is ask why. 34:20 I'm a huge fan of five whys and for those who are not familiar with five whys, 34:27 five whys is the one way to get to the root cause of something. 34:34 So it's a good question to ask, okay, we want to build this thing, but 34:41 why do we want to build it and keep asking why to get to the root cause of something. 34:46 So yeah. 34:56 Do you know any highly rated and accessible sites? 34:59 So one site that I like to recommend, 35:04 it's a great, also someone asked earlier for resources. 35:06 It's a great resource. 35:11 And it is accessible. 35:14 It is called the A11Y Project and 35:15 the A11Y Project that's a great site for so many reasons. 35:19 One, it has a great amount of resources, 35:27 but it is also keyboard accessible from the start. 35:30 So if you were just using your keyboard only, you can use that site. 35:33 So for me, I'm just that's like a personal highly rated thing. 35:39 Yes, so Gypsy is saying do you sell your book outside of Amazon? 35:47 I do not patronize Amazon for ethical reasons. 35:50 Totally the book is available at smaller bookstores because I 35:54 have friends who felt the same. 35:58 They actually ordered it from like a local bookstore in San Francisco. 36:01 So you can do that but you can also go directly to the Apress website. 36:06 My book is available there, Target, Barnes and Noble and other retailers. 36:13 So, definitely if you're not, you don't have to go to Amazon to get it. 36:19 You're welcome, thank you. 36:28 I get it, I feel sometimes the same like my book is there on Amazon but 36:30 also I know it's a place that a lot of people go, so 36:35 I have such mixed feelings about the whole thing. 36:38 And yeah, thank you for sharing the A11Y Project. 36:45 For those who don't know what A11Y is, A11Y is numeronym for accessibility. 36:49 There's 11 characters between the A and the Y. 36:56 So if you're wanting to learn more about accessibility and 37:03 you're on Twitter, if you look up the hashtag A11Y, 37:08 you'll see a lot of stuff for accessibility 37:13 Thank you Lindsay [LAUGH] for that sharing 37:22 Portland based bookstore, wonderful. 37:27 And I want to say this before I forget, I want to thank the Treehouse festival for 37:33 having me be here cuz this is a great organization and 37:40 I'm really excited that I was asked to be part of this event. 37:45 Anytime anybody asks me to speak I'm like, sure [LAUGH]. 37:53 >> [LAUGH] Well, thank you Regine. 37:56 This is such important work that you're doing, 37:59 that you're talking about it so much. 38:02 So highly needed for us not to forget. 38:05 And I think one of the most important things that you shared with us is 38:08 designing with and not for, right? 38:11 And so then all of this just kind of really speaks to how important it is to 38:13 have inclusion across the board and 38:18 why we need diversity on all of our boards and all of our departments. 38:20 And all of our projects to make sure that all voices have some representation, 38:25 right, so that we're not creating things that aren't useful [LAUGH]. 38:31 >> Right. 38:37 This sounds kinda productive, right? 38:38 >> Yeah. >> Thank you so much and yeah. 38:39 >> Thank you for captioning. 38:40 This has been like I'm so grateful for that. 38:43 >> Awesome. 38:48 Yeah, we're trying. 38:48 We try very, very hard every day here to do this work and I will definitely 38:50 probably including a lot of what you had to say in some of our curriculum. 38:54 So I'm really excited to get to the editing and get that done. 38:58 But yeah, if you all have not had an opportunity, I thank all of you for 39:02 supporting Regine and finding creative ways to get her book. 39:06 >> [LAUGH] >> I'd love to support the authors 39:10 out there. 39:12 So make sure you pick up that inclusive design for digital world designing for 39:12 accessibility in mind, it might become your daily text book that sounds like. 39:16 >> Yeah, yeah. 39:20 >> So all right. 39:22 Well, thank you Regine. 39:23 >> Thank you and thank you Liz Jackson. 39:24 Thank you so much. 39:27 >> Yeah, awesome. 39:29 >> Bye bye. 39:30 >> So at this time y'all, we're gonna go ahead and 39:31 transfer into our networking sessions. 39:33 I hope you're taking advantage of that on this very last day. 39:36 Don't miss out on opportunities to talk with other folks and 39:40 share your experiences, then get those numbers and emails and Twitter and 39:43 Instagram handles out there. 39:46 Y'all have a wonderful, wonderful weekend. 39:48 See you later. 39:50 Bye-bye. 39:51

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